A INTENSE DAY

>>>This is a case of maybe both sides being asses. The Governor of WI might have been too draconian in the wording of the bill but it was a very stupid move on the Dem's part to leave the state and the unions to escalate the issue the way they had.

Here in Nevada with 14% unemployment when the unions tried to play hardball they lost the public and had to take cuts and now layoffs. With the economy in the shape it's in this is a no win situation for state union workers.<<<

See what you just said there kind of proves my point about this governor. The union is willing to take these pay cuts as long as they can keep bargaining rights but,this governor wants to take everything away.Basically he wants a union with no power. A union with no power means that Agency's and businesses can cut the pay of workers with no qualms or opposition.....I think if this goes through it will be a nail in the coffin for the middle class workers (not that the accelerating rate of colleges tuition is helping to diminish that cause).
The Dems leaving is the only way of actually stopping the bill. Because you need at least 20 to be present at signing. I think and 6 have left.

>>>You are a victim of the media The WI Governor wants to remove collective bargaining from pensions and health not pay. So they still could have a contract on pay but the legislator would pass bills on health insurance and pensions with the police and fire departments exempt from the new rules. It is health and pensions that are causing the funding problems in almost all states<<<

First do not insult my intelligence. Collective Bargaining is a contract on which terms are met by both parties that workers get rights. The unions are willing to have pension and health cuts and are willing to pay more but, he wants more he wants the whole thing. I can see removing health completely. People should be responsible for their health insurance. One of the main problems with health insurance is that it restricts the market for health insurance completely and puts the worker to one insurance company. Which raises the rates of insurance since these health insurance people know their going to get paid. Without that part in the contract insurance companies who are tied to businesses because of the bill will have to start marketing them selves and lowering the cost of their insurance. Why? because people aren't going pay a fortune to be insured. Workers are going to look for cheaper insurance. But this is not what the governor is aiming for. Also this goes across the board its the same as here in Ohio were our governor wants to end it in both firefighter and in police. I should know can't stop hearing from my aunt who is a police officer. Heck its already been done in Illinois where they've took away Collective Bargaining back in 2001 but, now their going after private unions. Second I don't know what the real story behind Chrysler bankrupts is but GM on the other hand before it was mostly government owned or more so government invested made the bad move of pulling jobs out from Michigan and outsourcing its jobs to Mexico. This caused a major bad rap for them. You have to remember that pension can only be afforded when people are actually buying you cars. We also have this great little bit of how they wanted to hold bonds for interest and not use. Hmmmm maybe I'm not saying this straight enough or clear enough. Here a link that does it better.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2009/04/how-badly-will-bankr...

If there's one thing we can agree on its that both parties have screwed up the economy.