A INTENSE DAY

scizman's picture

We all know about the protest going on and depending on were you live it's only getting worse. I live in Columbus, Ohio. ever since the action of clearing out worker Unions the air here has been very intense. People are constantly congregating in groups around the city and I've been sweating hard. There's... a constant rumor giong around that police and firefighters will start protesting soon if unions are cut. This make me think that if theres protesting from firefighters who fight our fires and police who protect our homes who will do these jobs Scabs? Frankly there's a inkling thought going on in the back in my head that somethings going to happen. I feel angry at the governor of Wisconsin for not compromising with the union. I know that for repubs unions are bad but, is this really the time when we are in such a delicate state. The last thing we need is people protesting while were in a recession and that feeling of something eerie on the horizon doesn't help ether. Maybe I'm just paraniod or thinking to much. What do you think?

 

take a look at this link and you'll see what I'm talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mI--Ar8Ry0

Actually this is better since it's PBS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMA2wF56V3M

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Judgment Day

neorandomizer's picture

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Well in most states if the Police go on an illegal strike the governor will have the State Police take over and call up the state's National Guard.

This is a case of maybe both sides being asses. The Governor of WI might have been too draconian in the wording of the bill but it was a very stupid move on the Dem's part to leave the state and the unions to escalate the issue the way they had.

Here in Nevada with 14% unemployment when the unions tried to play hardball they lost the public and had to take cuts and now layoffs. With the economy in the shape it's in this is a no win situation for state union workers.

look back

scizman's picture

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>>>This is a case of maybe both sides being asses. The Governor of WI might have been too draconian in the wording of the bill but it was a very stupid move on the Dem's part to leave the state and the unions to escalate the issue the way they had.

Here in Nevada with 14% unemployment when the unions tried to play hardball they lost the public and had to take cuts and now layoffs. With the economy in the shape it's in this is a no win situation for state union workers.<<<

See what you just said there kind of proves my point about this governor. The union is willing to take these pay cuts as long as they can keep bargaining rights but,this governor wants to take everything away.Basically he wants a union with no power. A union with no power means that Agency's and businesses can cut the pay of workers with no qualms or opposition.....I think if this goes through it will be a nail in the coffin for the middle class workers (not that the accelerating rate of colleges tuition is helping to diminish that cause).
The Dems leaving is the only way of actually stopping the bill. Because you need at least 20 to be present at signing. I think and 6 have left.

Not the real story

neorandomizer's picture

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>>See what you just said there kind of proves my point about this governor. The union is willing to take these pay cuts as long as they can keep bargaining rights but,this governor wants to take everything away.<<

You are a victim of the media The WI Governor wants to remove collective bargaining from pensions and health not pay. So they still could have a contract on pay but the legislator would pass bills on health insurance and pensions with the police and fire departments exempt from the new rules. It is health and pensions that are causing the funding problems in almost all states.

The funny thing about this is that democrats in congress were looking for ways to give states the right to file bankruptcy so they could break this contracts that are killing the states just two weeks ago. The states unlike cities or counties can not file for bankruptcy because they are sovereign so the only thing that can be done right now is either to get the unions to change the contracts or for the federal government to take on the states debts.

It may also be remembered that it was pensions that bankrupted GM and Chrysler. The states pension plans were adopted during the bubble years of the 90's and the states will never see property tax revenues like that again for decades if ever again.

http://chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2011/01/cantor-declares-state-bankrup...

Ok buddy

scizman's picture

Comment: 

>>>You are a victim of the media The WI Governor wants to remove collective bargaining from pensions and health not pay. So they still could have a contract on pay but the legislator would pass bills on health insurance and pensions with the police and fire departments exempt from the new rules. It is health and pensions that are causing the funding problems in almost all states<<<

First do not insult my intelligence. Collective Bargaining is a contract on which terms are met by both parties that workers get rights. The unions are willing to have pension and health cuts and are willing to pay more but, he wants more he wants the whole thing. I can see removing health completely. People should be responsible for their health insurance. One of the main problems with health insurance is that it restricts the market for health insurance completely and puts the worker to one insurance company. Which raises the rates of insurance since these health insurance people know their going to get paid. Without that part in the contract insurance companies who are tied to businesses because of the bill will have to start marketing them selves and lowering the cost of their insurance. Why? because people aren't going pay a fortune to be insured. Workers are going to look for cheaper insurance. But this is not what the governor is aiming for. Also this goes across the board its the same as here in Ohio were our governor wants to end it in both firefighter and in police. I should know can't stop hearing from my aunt who is a police officer. Heck its already been done in Illinois where they've took away Collective Bargaining back in 2001 but, now their going after private unions. Second I don't know what the real story behind Chrysler bankrupts is but GM on the other hand before it was mostly government owned or more so government invested made the bad move of pulling jobs out from Michigan and outsourcing its jobs to Mexico. This caused a major bad rap for them. You have to remember that pension can only be afforded when people are actually buying you cars. We also have this great little bit of how they wanted to hold bonds for interest and not use. Hmmmm maybe I'm not saying this straight enough or clear enough. Here a link that does it better.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2009/04/how-badly-will-bankr...

The rhetoric of the past is not helping now

neorandomizer's picture

Comment: 

As I said both sides have handled this badly but it does not change that the media has taken sides on this and have sacrificed thoughtful reporting to cheer leading on both sides. As for the current contracts everyone even the unions know that they are unsustainable in this economy.

What we need is real health care reform to rain in the costs both the insurance companies and the for profit health care companies have brought the system to the brink of collapse. What the answer is I do not know but the old way of doing things are not cutting it.

As for pensions if the states and the federal government did not play accounting games with the trust funds they might not be going bankrupt now. Also the states that went the pay as you go path with the money coming out of the general fund are really in it deep now.

As for wages for government workers that needs to be looked at each state has different problems with their tax base again I do not have an answer but I do know not talking and just demanding is not going to change anything.

Both parties have done a really good job of screwing the economy up and again falling back to tried and true rhetoric does not change the fact that their is no money out there. We have the highest corporate tax rate of the industrialized world here in the US so were is the money going to come from. The UK tried high personal tax rates on the upper end in the 70's and all it did was have most of their rich move to NYC with their money and become US citizens so how are they going to get at the cash.

agree

scizman's picture

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If there's one thing we can agree on its that both parties have screwed up the economy.